Neon Noise Podcast
E44: All Great People Have Coaches with Stan Way
We all need guidance no matter how good we are.
All the Greats had Great Coaches... think Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson.
While it might be easy to correct a noticeable performance issue, sometimes the mindset issues are more challenging to see. This is where a skilled coach can make the best one of the greats.
In this episode of the Neon Noise podcast, we have Stan Way join us to talk about his experiences and how his coaching helps others achieve Peak Sales Results. He talks in depth about how most failures are a direct result from not only performance issues but also mindset issues.
Stan Way, the founder, and CEO of Peak Sales Results, helps sales professionals and business owners perfect their sales process. He uses scientifically based, proven concepts to help change your internal mindset first in order to then achieve success.
In this episode, Stan shares with us:
- Why it is important to correct your mindset prior to correcting your (insert whatever needs to be better)
- How he is different from business coaches, life coaches, or even other sales coaches
- What are some of the things that hold us back from achieving our professional and personal goals
- How he knows cold calling is not totally dead
- What is the imposter syndrome?
- How the right virtual sales team can take your business to the next level
- Why he suggests practicing and recording your sales pitches
- And much more...
We hope our conversation with Stan gives you insight on how you can elevate your performance to achieve peak results.
Enjoy!
Thanks for Listening!
Resources
Website: PeakSalesResults.com
Facebook Group: Peak Sales Results Facebook Group
Transcript
00:00 S?: Welcome to the Neon Noise podcast. Your home for learning ways to attract more traffic to your website, generate more leads, convert more leads into customers and build stronger relationships with your customers. And now your hosts, Justin Johnson and Ken Franzen.
00:16 Justin Johnson: Hey, hey, hey, Neon Noise Nation, this is the Neon Noise podcast where we decode marketing and sales topics to help you grow your business. What's going on, everybody? This is Justin Johnson and with me, I have my co-host, Mr. Ken Franzen. What's up, Ken? How is life treating you today?
00:31 Ken Franzen: Life is fantastic today, Justin. Little bit cooler weather here up in Ohio, getting ready for a little football that's starting up this weekend. I'm excited to, not wish summer away just yet but I'm also excited for fall to come and to cheer on my favorite teams. And hopefully get to November when Michigan beats Ohio state. So looking forward to all that.
[chuckle]
01:00 JJ: All right, well yeah, November is a little ways away but good luck with the November 25th date. Anyhoo so excited to hear from our featured guest today, he is an expert when it comes to coaching individuals and teams to achieve peak sales results. Today we will be speaking with Stan Way. He is the CEO of Peak Sales Results where he teaches entrepreneurs the scientifically proven most effective ways to make sales and increase their income on demand. That sounds pretty cool, I can definitely use a little bit of income on demand myself. Stan, it is good to have you on today, welcome to Neon Noise.
01:41 Stan Way: All right, yeah. I am just glad to be in a place where A, we're gonna talk about some cool stuff in regards to business but B, with some football fans. I like...
01:53 JJ: And correct me, you are from Alabama so I'm assuming you're a Hyde fan.
02:00 SW: Yeah. I will... And no offense to any listeners who might go for other people people but Hyde...
[overlapping conversation]
02:08 JJ: Hey, as a matter a fact, the last time my team played your team, we did okay so Ken's not so much. But...
[laughter]
02:20 KF: No, you guys demolished Michigan the last time we played you guys in the opener there at the AT&T stadium. That was a little embarrassing but Justin's a Buckeye fan so...
02:32 JJ: Love it.
02:32 KF: He comes from a little bit different of a background.
02:34 SW: That is okay and my dad's family's actually from Michigan so I have to... It's like double allegiance in my blood and so, yeah, I like it very much.
02:44 JJ: Wow, good stuff.
02:45 SW: Michigan banter as well so, yeah. Whoo! So, yeah, glad to be here though guys.
02:51 JJ: Very, very good. Hey, do me a favor and fill in the blanks on anything I may have missed and share with us a little bit about your background.
02:57 SW: Sure, yeah. So those intros are always so friendly. It's funny, I get to hear [laughter] other people say nice things about me...
[laughter]
03:03 KF: Everybody says that, by the way.
[laughter]
03:05 SW: Which is really nice, I like that. I do run Peak Sales Result, peaksalesresults.com and I do work with sales professionals in businesses large and small. Kinda perfect the sales process and sales technique. My background is [chuckle] varied. I joke around and say, "Hey, I was a salesperson as a little kid." I remember my mom, and my mom's family were really, really big into poker games when I was a little kid and we're... [chuckle] And this might reveal a lot about my family, I'm not sure if they would appreciate me saying this but the poker game would start on Friday night and end like Monday morning 4:00 AM.
03:55 JJ: Hey, that's not a bad deal.
03:56 SW: Yeah.
[chuckle]
03:57 JJ: It's a nice game.
04:00 SW: Yeah, good poker game. But it was funny because there was always beer and I remember my older cousins, my aunts and my uncles and these random strangers from down the street coming in and they'd plop down the 24 case of Milwaukee's Best. The best. And...
04:15 JJ: Quality baby.
04:17 SW: [chuckle] And I remember as a little kid, I was five or six years old and I'd wait till they were two or three beers in. I would set my little toy cash register up on top of the 24 pack. And they'd say, "Hey, pass me a beer," and I'd say, "Okay, cool, that'd be three bucks." So sales has been in my blood. I no longer [chuckle] sell alcohol to inebriated people or family members. But yeah, it's been fun. I started when I was 21. I started selling life and health insurance and that's kind of a story in and of itself. My stepfather kinda helped me get started there but I quickly realized I was 21 years old, I was making a six-figure a year income and the rest of my friends were still in college with lots of student loan debt. And I was like, "Whoo! [chuckle] living the life."
05:08 SW: But it's funny because I made a lot of money, then I lost a lot of money and I've went through that cycle three times in life now until it finally occurred to me that there's a lot of mental things and things that happen inside our head that caused those ups and downs in business and in income to happen. And so when I work with salespeople and work with businesses and even large Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies, it's about getting internally into people's internal psyche to help them A, overcome their own mental stuff but then B, overcome the customers mental blocks from actually getting on board. So yeah, that kind of a short introduction. [chuckle] Selling beer to family members is a lot less fancy than what...
05:57 JJ: It's a pretty good return, man.
06:01 KF: I still like it 'cause I think $2 for a Milwaukee's Best is probably more than they paid for in the store, right?
06:07 SW: I know, I hate Milwaukee's Best should probably hire me, if anyone's listening.
06:12 JJ: There we go. Stay in touch on those mental triggers you just mentioned, you said there's mental triggers that make those ups and downs happen. What do you mean by those?
06:22 SW: Sure, and to speak to the audience that you've got here. Obviously, you guys run a super successful business, leaders in your industry, obviously expanding. I've worked with a lot of people in digital marketing and it's kinda funny, it doesn't matter the business, it doesn't matter the vertical, the niche, the product, or the service that anyone is selling. What happens is that you can see other people succeeding in it and you can sacrifice and invest in your own coaching and training, or maybe buy a program or something and you can start it, but most people fail. Let's be really honest, over 95% of businesses that start out are gonna be gone and dead in the next five years.
07:11 SW: And it's usually not because of skill set so much. Now, sometimes it's because of skill set [chuckle] because people don't invest in their education enough for their business but most of the time, it's a mindset issue. It's imposter syndrome. It's not believing that you can actually do it. It's not having a clear road map in front of you. It's not actually seeing yourself and your product, your service, your business actually fulfilling your core desires. And so that's why when I work with people...
07:41 JJ: I love that.
07:42 SW: In businesses, I help them figure out, "What do you even want in life first?" Because if what you're doing doesn't serve what you actually want, you're probably gonna fail and burn out.
07:53 KF: You mentioned impostor syndrome, can you explain what that is for some of our listeners that might not know?
08:00 SW: Sure, yeah, So impostor syndrome, and I will use my wife as an example here. My wife is super talented, she's an amazing photographer. When we first started dating a few years ago, she had a pretty cool expensive camera [chuckle], a camera I actually was envious of and wanted in my business, because it was so expensive. And she took some photographs and everything and she was okay, I mean, she was okay when we were dating and stuff but she had a real passion for photography. My wife, she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, she's highly educated, and she said, "I wanna be a stay-at-home mom with our kids." And so she was doing that with our small children but she really wanted to serve the world on a higher level and get back into photography.
08:49 SW: So she got the proper coaching, and mentoring, and training and got really, really good, so good that she was featured in some really great publications. But it's so funny, she's a wedding photographer, her starting package I think starts off at like $3,500 for a wedding but it's so funny because even though she's beloved by everyone, she still most Saturdays when she leaves for a wedding she goes, "I can't believe I'm doing this. I can't believe people pay me to do this. It doesn't even make sense."
09:21 SW: And I think most people suffer from that in business, and it really comes down to the fact that, and there's some psychological studies we could talk more about, people actually hold themselves back because they have integrity, [chuckle] which is good. If you have impostor syndrome it means you're a good person working from a core of integrity but it's funny because if you have integrity, you don't wanna put yourself out there, you don't want to put your product, your service, your business out there but at the same time you're holding yourself back. And so people say, "Well, I can never do that because... " fill in the blank with a lame excuse. And so it comes down to just getting rid of the lame excuses because the only difference between...
10:04 SW: You guys run a successful business and have a really cool podcast, other people want to do it, the only difference between you and the other guys is that you guys do it, and that's it and that applies to any business. Is the only difference between people who are actually succeeding and not succeeding are just the people that do it. Because I remember back in 2007, I joined a mastermind from some cool, well, actually really cool internet marketers wanted to learn how to grow my own business and there were two guys in that program with me who had crummier jobs than I had, and we're making a lot money that I was.
10:42 SW: But I watched them over a six-month period while I still stayed in my corporate sales position. [chuckle] I was like, "I'm comfy here." I watched these guys go and launch their own businesses, their own programs. I remember in 2012 watching both of them make videos online and be like, "Yeah, we're millionaires but it's cool because blah, blah, blah." And I had this huge impostor syndrome and I was like, "Well, what's the difference between me and them? I know all of the same things." They just did it, and that's usually the big difference for folks.
11:14 JJ: We see that a lot when we're talking with clients. We encourage them and I believe we can get through this a little bit more perhaps in a bit, but you work with a lot of content with sales as well, correct?
11:27 SW: Yeah, yeah.
11:29 JJ: Absolutely, and we see this with the content strategies we work with our clients. A lot of times they have that same approach, "Well, I'm not... " And so and so is doing that, they look like the expert and they see these other people rise to, let's say, rise to success or they receive this additional exposure. And the only difference, and it's hard to convince those people, they do know their stuff they just won't put their words on up in a blog post or put themselves out on camera and I think it's that fear that goes along with like you wife says, "I can't believe that I get paid to do this." It's not that so much, they're not good enough but even that fear of even putting themselves out there, right?
12:17 SW: Yeah, and for a lot of people, when people work with me one-on-one, they get the 75-page PDF, it's pretty bulky, but one of the... It's actually the second thing that we work with is looking at your circle of influence and circle of friends and family and kind of judiciously going through that list of people that you create and saying, "Hey, yeah, they're good, they build me up," or, "Hey, yeah, they're not." [chuckle] And that holds people in conjunction with impostor syndrome, that's what holds people back a lot is because they're so afraid of being judged by Aunt Suzie and putting on Facebook and saying, "Hey, I've got this new business. It's a really cool thing," and then Aunt Suzie coming back in and being like, "Well, you dropped out of college and you suck."
[laughter]
13:09 SW: Everyone has an Aunt Suzie. Some of us have five Aunt Suzie and so it's understanding that you just kinda have to cut those people out of your life in the most respectful kind loving way. Just forget about what they say and if you announce your business or say something on Facebook or on Twitter or whatever you do at the family barbecue, just kind of smile and be like, "Screw you Suzie." In a nice way.
[laughter]
13:38 KF: I love it. I love it. You mentioned that your methods are scientifically proven. What do you mean by that?
13:47 SW: So this is one of the things that kinda sets me apart from other people that kinda do what I do. No one really does what I do which is cool. I love that. There are really cool people. You guys recently had on Ryan Schuman. I love Ryan Schuman, he's cool. There's Grant Cardone. Then we could get really old school and go with some Palm Hawkins kind of stuff with sales. These are all really cool guys. They really serve their audiences. I [chuckle] don't have a lot of products and stuff to sell 'cause I do, I work one-on-one and then with major corporations and in-office and do a lot of one on one stuff, but those guys are all really cool and they give, by all means, go buy their stuff guys. If you're in sales and need some help, go buy Ryan Schuman's stuff, it's cool. [chuckle] Here's a plug for him, but what differentiates me is that I don't teach a lot of... Well, we do get into closing tactics and scripts and practicing and closing loops and word tracks and slide decks and all sorts of, all these generic kinda sales terms.
15:01 SW: But I start off, if someone worked with me one-on-one, they will work with me for four weeks before we ever get into "Hey, this is what my pitch sounds like," because we work with a lot of internal stuff. And so I use a lot of scientifically based, evidence-proven kind of things to actually make you change your mindset. It's kinda like, I was joking around and saying Tony Robins has the Power Within weekend. I kinda do a Power Within intensive for four weeks, and it's to change your mental mindset because you have to change internally to understand where you want to take your life to actually be successful in anything you want to do. And then when we do get the sales tactics and everything else, it's understanding that sales, first of all, you need to be passionate about what you're doing that you actually need to truly be serving. And I work with car salesmen every now and then and it's funny because every car salesman I end up working with ends up leaving car sales and going and doing something else. And nothing is wrong with car salespeople.
16:13 SW: I think they're great and hey, everyone drives a car but they get out of it because they see in the sales process of being a car salesman that they actually don't like the little bit of deceit and lack of integrity in that industry. And so they go and find a different product or service to sell which is awesome because then that serves their core integrity value and then they can go serve the world with a higher purpose. And so then it's moving into a sales process and actually using proven techniques to help a potential client or a customer move through a sales process and overcome their own mental obstacles and hurdles. And I'm sure you guys deal with it a lot. You know you have clients that you guys can serve 100%. You have all the case studies and all the social proof, but you guys probably have clients that are just too afraid to invest with you, would be my assumption.
17:03 KF: True. Now there's some there where we wish they would employ some more encompassing strategies, but that's just it that sometimes that we haven't showed them a story compelling enough to get them to do that investment I guess is the case there. But one question I had. You mentioned changing mental mindset. Can you dive in a little bit more on maybe what, and we're gonna get some general, we'll go to some general generalities here where hey, this is non-encompassing of anyone in particular but more of the general average, I guess, is what I'm searching for. What does someone look like when they come to you? I don't wanna say broken they are or when they begin working with you, what is the trigger for this shift in the mental mindset? Why do you start there?
18:05 SW: I start there... Look, some people are already there, just to be frank. Some people who are just really good at what they're doing in business or in sales are already there. But that is very few. I would honestly say less than 5%. And so you're asking of like a general "Hey, who comes and work with you?" I work with a guy last year. He started working with me, invested with me. He was homeless. I didn't know it at the time. He invested thousands of dollars with me and was homeless and living in his car and was moving across the country to move in with some family members. So that's one end of the spectrum. And now the guy's doing awesome. He nets I think about $25,000 a month in sales in his business right now. Very cool guy.
19:02 SW: But then the other end of the spectrum is large, very well put together businesses who have large teams and I'll use a digital marketing agency I worked with recently. They've got two dozen employees. They've been in business for 15 years that they're super great at what they do. They've always depended upon referrals though and not charging enough for their services. And so [chuckle] it's kinda helping them understand, "Well, where do you really wanna go? How does your business serve you?" And then actually help them understand their value. Because there are a lot of people that are just undercharging for their services.
19:44 SW: Especially in the digital marketing space where there's folks that'll charge $250 a month to run your Facebook ad or there's folks that'll charge $5,000 a month to run your Facebook ad. Well yeah, there's [chuckle] a happy medium there and it doesn't really matter how much people are charging. What matters is how much you're actually helping your client or your potential client on the backend. And so it's understanding your value. And so when it comes to helping people change their mind set, depending on the industry, the product or service. We have some questionnaires we go through. I work with them one on one. And help them kinda see where they're at because most people will admit that they have imposter syndrome or that they're not charging enough for their products or services or that they'll come to this realization that they just have all the skill set, they're just not taking action. And so then kinda coaching them one-on-one from there because all those people are different. You have to handle them differently. Yeah so it's helping people on the level that they need to be helped at. If that kinda makes sense.
20:54 KF: It does. Thank you. So from an aspect of coaching. What do you say to the person that might not be totally sold on a coach? Why would someone want to or should they hire a sales coach?
21:08 SW: And that's really good. Someone actually wrote an article the other day and featured me in it on the 10 reasons why you need a sales coach. And I appreciated it because it started off, the number one reason was all great people have coaches. And someone had a picture of Michael Jordan there with Phil Jackson. [chuckle] And that's so true and it kinda speaks to your guys' industry. I've worked, for the last couple years I've worked, like I said, with a lot of digital marketing agencies, a lot of people that run Facebook ad. A lot of ecommerce clients and it's funny because in conversations with an ecommerce point, someone that wants their own Facebook ads, I will always kinda say, "Okay, well, cool, tell me about your store. Tell me about your product. Who's run your Facebook ads? Did you do it?" And if someone ran their own Facebook ads I'd say, "Oh okay. Cool. Well, kinda tell me, give me an example of a time you've run a Facebook ad and seen a good return on investment?" And that's always a very powerful... In that situation, very powerful question to ask that type of client because what happens is they're usually just gonna tell you everything you need to know, to know exactly where they learned. And so... And I'll give this example.
22:30 SW: I spoke to a lot of people over the last couple years who've said, "Oh, well this. And I had to see some of [22:35] ____ the pixel and then I had to do this, this and this." And I'd say, "Okay, cool. So it sounds to me like you bought this course by so and so to learn how to run Facebook ads. Is that right?" And people would go, "Whoa, how'd you know that?" and I'd say, "Oh, well, because you just said exactly what they taught." And [chuckle] I'd say, "Okay, cool. So you spent $3,000 on this course. Kinda tell me, you're obviously speaking to me now. You need someone else to run a Facebook ad. Give me an example of why is this not working at this point for you?" And it's funny because once again it's not skill set. A lot of times it's mindset.
23:14 SW: And so in those situations walking someone through a sales process like that, when you're in sales, if you're just a master in your industry and you know it like the back of your hand, I can ask those questions on a sales call across multiple industries and know who they've learned things from. If I ask you about Facebook ad, I can find out without you telling me who taught, where you learned to do Facebook ad 'cause I've bought all the courses. [chuckle] If you're trying to do drop shipping or ecommerce or any of these other things or you're in sales and you learned a particular closing price, I can tell where you learned it. And so I say all of that because a lot of people have went and invested in their education and spent a few, 50 bucks, a couple hundred bucks, a few thousand dollars on programs, that for some people work.
24:08 SW: And they work for some people because they're mentally, there they can just take the action. Other people don't though, other people don't take the action. And it's because they're missing that personal aspect. And so to go back to your base question, why do people need a coach? Well some people just need to be told straight up like it is. I had a morning about three months ago where my 9:00 AM, my 10:00 AM, and my 11:00 AM calls they were all wonderful women that I've worked with for months but I made them all cry. [laughter] By 9:30 they're weeping, weeping on the phone and by 10:30 there was weeping on the phone and 11:30 there was weeping on the phone, so I went to lunch with my wife and she's like, "What is wrong?"
24:53 SW: And I said, "I just made a lot of women cry." But that's part of being a coach, it's telling people the straight, honest truth but loving them enough and seeing their potential enough to be able to give them the action steps to get there because so many people are held back usually by so many different things, once again imposter syndrome, mental roadblocks, Aunt Suzie, whatever it is. You have to help them overcome it. So for some people look a program's great, for other people coaching is great but for most people, most people need a coach. That's why Facebook, I'm kinda speaking to your industry again, Facebook blueprint is an amazing, amazing, amazing resource. Anyone could go and, if they were a go-getter, go and run their own Facebook Ad but most people can't, 'cause they don't have the time, the commitment, or the passion for it, and that's all there is to it. So if someone wanted to do that they would need to get a good coach or hire you guys.
25:51 JJ: Sure. And we tell them that often times as well is, hey everything you need to do for Facebook, Google AdWords is online and it's well documented if you wanna go through the steps. The difference is, much like your trade, you're better at it than I am, so I should hire you to be my attorney or my brain surgeon just because you've a little bit more experience and the know how there, the trade off is worth the investment.
26:25 SW: Yeah and I'll tell you if I can say this, and I don't like the word hate. I think hate is a bad four-letter word. Here in the Way household we try not to say the word hate, but I'm gonna say it, I hate DIY-ers. I hate them. [chuckle] And in business, and even in life in a little respect, because look, if you wanna remodel your bathroom, that's cool and if you wanna DIY that that's cool. But for me and from my sales perspective, I would much rather spend the next 26 weekends of my life creating an income-producing activity that would pay for that bathroom and 13 more. And it goes for business as well. A lot of people wanna DIY their way through a website. Like, why create a website? I can give you a guy on Fiverr that'll create you an amazing website for 65 bucks and it'll look better than anyone else in your industry, and be set up correctly, you know?
27:22 JJ: Sure.
27:24 SW: DIY-ers, I respect them but I think that sometimes they're looking backwards at their business. A lot of time with salespeople it's the exact same thing. You have to switch it backwards and say, "Why do you wanna do that?" Even a sales schedule or an appointment schedule, like, "Why do you want to deal with that and call and confirm your own people? Outsource that, spend $15 bucks a day, let someone else do it and focus on doing what you're good at, which is selling, hopefully."
27:54 KF: Absolutely. Now you call yourself a sales coach, how does this differ from a business coach or a life coach? 'Cause there's a lot of... The coaching world's very popular right now and I'm just looking for... 'Cause some of the items you talked about in the foundational exploration wouldn't be something I would consider a sales coach to jump into. So, can you kind of jump into that a little bit more, and tell us how a sales coach is different from the more common business or life coach?
28:29 SW: Sure, I'll take this phrase which is often said in my industry which is "everything in life is sales." Everything, and it starts with marketing. From the first time people see your first ad online, your first banner ad or something in a newspaper. Everything in life is sales and it starts with marketing. What differentiates a sales coach from anyone else? To speak to your point, there are, [chuckle] this is what's wrong with 2017 right now when we're recording this interview, is that a lot of people, I say a lot of people, almost everyone online is raising their hand and saying they're a coach, "I'm a coach, I can teach you how to do this." The fact is, as you look at their background and you say, "Okay, cool, what's your social proof there?" Well there is no social proof, I've never done this before. I watched a YouTube video.
29:25 SW: Gary V got me really pumped up which is great, I'm glad people get excited but there's all sorts of different coaches in different industries. A business coach is gonna kinda give you an overall plan and lay it out a little bit differently than I would. You talked about a mindset coach, honestly so much of what I cover is mindset that if you're in sales I don't think you need a mindset coach, I think you just need a good sales coach 'cause a good sales coach is gonna help you through that, so I'm very specific in that, all of my business honestly comes to me though referrals. I don't have to run ads for myself. I would like to, and grow and do all sorts of different stuff, but right now I help so many people in my industry, both one-on-one, but also in the coaching industry. Thats kinda where the majority of my income comes from, is actually helping legitimate real coaches online build out their sales processes.
30:32 SW: And I've worked with some really amazing, really well-known headline kinda coaches. And every time I work with them they kinda implement their online sales processes, and hire their virtual sales teams. It's this new fun and exciting thing because not a lot of people do that, and not a lot of people know how to implement a virtual sales team or a coach or for a business. I do that a lot, [chuckle] that's actually what I spend the majority of my time doing, is building up virtual sales teams for businesses. I just like the personal aspect of working one-on-one with you. Which is two different things, but I say that because a good sales coach is gonna help you in a lot of different facets of your business. And has to understand in 2017 everything from scheduling software, to pay-per-click advertisement, it's all sales.
31:28 KF: You made mention of building up virtual sales teams. And one thing that I had noted here that I wanted to ask about is, Justin and I in the passed 10 years of owning Neon Goldfish or founding Neon Goldfish 10 years ago, we've went through lots of peaks and valleys. And we've had different salespeople help us in our sales efforts. We've always struggled so, so very much to find anyone that cared as much as we did and sold with the same level of excitement, engagement, integrity, which is a word that I've heard you use several times. And so how do you help an entrepreneur find those types of individuals, and is that the virtual sales team or is that something different?
32:28 SW: Yeah, no, that is part of building a virtual sales team. And you're exactly right. If you haven't done it before, it's almost impossible to know how to find a virtual sales team, or how to build one. And so that's what I do a lot for folks. Because I come in and I'm kinda like a drill sergeant. [chuckle] And it's not because I'm some mean guy, I like to think I'm a pretty nice guy. I don't push over Aunt Suzie too often. [laughter] But the fact is that you just have to hold your salespeople, business developers, whatever you wanna call them, you have to hold them accountable. And so it comes with posting the right type of ad, to the right type of people, saying the right type of things, having the right kind of copy in that ad to attract the right type of people. Taking them through a correct interview process, giving them a correct probationary period, and then, and most importantly, a lot of people think I'm crazy when I say this, is making sure this business developer or salesperson, anyone that comes on your team to do this is commission based. 100% commission based.
33:41 SW: And the reason I recommend and say that, and would recommend that to anyone listening to this is because that way they have skin in the game. That way they are going to be just as passionate as you. But you have to sell yourself, and your business, and your vision, and your social proof to your person. It's [chuckle] a two way sale really. And so when I work with businesses that's what I have to do. I have to sell the business to the right group of salespeople that we've attracted. And then it's holding them super accountable. Now, if it's a virtual sales team, and they're doing phone calls or Skype or Zoom, however they're meeting with people; it's making sure that they follow industry standard. And when I say industry standard I mean, look at HubSpot.
34:29 SW: You speak to a sales rep with HubSpot or SalesForce, you get on the phone with one of these really well trained guys, they're gonna start the call and they're gonna say, "Hey, John, is it okay if I record today's conversation? That way if you have any questions or anything at all, or if you want a copy of the recording I can send it to you afterwards." "Okay, cool." And that's what HubSpot does. They're an industry leader in inbound marketing. And so it's not about reinventing the wheel, it's just holding a virtual sales team or any salesperson to those standards of saying, "Okay cool, if you're gonna work with me you have to record every call." Now make sure that you're doing it legally. Much like in the way I just gave the example, ask for permission.
35:14 SW: If they say, "No," okay, don't record the call; but make sure they're recording the call. And the reason for that is because it's so important for a good salesperson to go back and review their pitch and their process, so important. So, so, so important. And thats part of just sales 101. Is you have to review what you're doing. But then second of all, you as the employer or any business as an employer that has a virtual sales team, you can go at random and listen to these recordings; and go, "Oh, man, whoo! He is really not that great in this one area," and coaching around it. If that kinda makes sense. So it is a difficult process, but once we've done it once, and seen it done, it's easy to duplicate, but it's hard because there are a lot of moving pieces in having a team like that.
36:06 KF: You mentioned Sales 101 and reviewing the pitch through these recorded calls, what are some of the common mistakes you encounter with either salespeople or entrepreneurs in their selling efforts?
36:26 SW: It all goes back to what we talked about at the beginning, it's usually lack of confidence. I listen to a lot of people's sales call recordings. [chuckle] I've listened to thousands and thousands at this point. And it doesn't matter if it's a one call kind of close process, or a two call close, or a three call close, it doesn't matter what kind of close, or situation, or product, or service it is, it's usually lack of confidence. When I first listened to these kind of recordings, and so me, as a professional, I can come in and say, "Hey, they just opened up and told you what they really wanted, but you were trying to sell them something else, because maybe you're not as confident in that area," or something like that. But it's usually confidence almost 100% of the time, and then it's moving into actually serving and selling what your client wants. I've worked [chuckle] with Direct TV sales reps before, and a Direct TV sales rep, that sales process is kinda asking about the current TV setup that someone has in their home.
37:36 SW: And someone might say, "Well, I've got AT&T U-verse, and I like it for this reason, I don't like it for this reason, but I can't DVR more than a couple of things at the time." Oh, well, if they say that, that's a huge selling point for someone selling Direct TV 'cause... And I can't even remember, you can DVR like 85 things at once, or something crazy like that. But a lot of times sales reps would not even hear that. They would just move on and try to sell NFL Sunday Ticket or something crazy that the client doesn't want or care about, and it doesn't matter that the product, the service, or the industry, that's almost always the case. It's lack of confidence and not selling to what your potential client actually wants. 'Cause if you just say, "Hey, what do you want? Why are you even talking to me?" they're gonna tell you. 'Cause no one wants to be sold to, they just wanna get it over with, so they'll tell you what they want.
38:25 KF: Would you say that someone looking to increase their close rate as well should look at either their sales pitch and how confident they are in the delivery, and/or opening up those ears a little bit and making sure that you're keying into those verbal cues that the clients tell them, "I don't need that, but here's something that does frustrate me"?
38:49 SW: Yeah, I think everyone in sales should be recording their sales pitch. So, I don't care if you're the car salesman and you've put your iPhone upside down in your shirt pocket with the microphone up as you're talking to people out on the lot, or you're a real estate agent who's showing a house, or if you're someone that's selling something over the phone, I think everyone should be recording their sales pitch. The reason being, and there's lots of scientific data and study that goes into this, is that if you just review that, most of the time you can actually self-correct that without even hiring someone else. So you can go, "Whoo, man, that was terrible, that was horrid." The reason most people don't like hearing their voice is because they're not comfortable with what they're saying. It's a confidence issue, and that's never more evident than in a sales process. And so I think everyone should record it, but yeah, when you do that you can self-correct and not always self-diagnose, but you can self-correct a lot of the bad things that you are doing.
40:00 KF: And you're saying with that then to get it into a more consistent delivery, more confident delivery, what should they be looking for if they're recording this, they're going back, they're playing the recorded audio, they identify a verbal cue they might've missed or they say, "Well, I sound like a bumbling fool here... " What are the cues that they should be keying in on?
40:24 SW: Yeah, well more than anything, what does the potential client want? That's all that's really important at the end of the day. If your product and service is good, great. It's gonna serve the need for a potential client, and here's the thing, anyone that's in sales, I think, anyone that's really good at sales is often going to start a sales process, find out some discovery questions from their potential client, and find out that they're not a good fit. And then, if they're a really good salesperson, they'll refer them to someone else, plain and simple. Because if you're working from a core of integrity, let's be honest, whatever your service or product you have, it's not gonna fit everyone. The jet ski isn't the perfect fit for every family.
41:15 SW: So it's finding out what the potential client wants. And so when you listen to these recordings, yeah, it's asking the right discovery questions, which is back to Sales 101, which should be after rapport building, finding out what the potential client wants, and sometimes look, you're the perfect fit and sometimes you're not. And if you're not, hey refer them to someone else. Maybe you don't get a referral fee, depending on your industry, but if you do that... Look, a potential client who, and this happens to me all the time, I refer people to different sales training all the time, and they'll go and take different sales training and pay money to someone else, quite a bit of money, but they'll come back to me a few months later when they're ready for coaching and they're at a different place in their business and that can apply to almost any industry. When you're just a cool guy and [42:07] ____ out, look, I call it karma point or whatever you want, it's gonna come back to you.
42:13 JJ: I like it. I do. I think that there is a need to identify qualify early in the stages of that conversation, because you don't wanna waste their time, you don't wanna waste your own time in a talk track that won't lead to depending on where you're positioned. Good stuff. Here's a question I love talking with salespeople about, because when I started my post-college career, I was in sales selling copy machines door to door to businesses and I used to...
42:52 SW: Oh, man, look at you. Awesome.
42:53 JJ: Yeah. I use to do the dreaded cold calling with a stack of business cards and a thick skin on my back, because no one wanted to buy a copy machine ever. And so back then it was cold calling, it was picking up the phone, it was going knocking on doors. That's drastically changed in today's world. Cold calling is "dead" and I wanted to ask you what your thoughts were on that and what would you recommend to a business owner, an entrepreneur, somebody starting of or a salesperson starting of without a book of business to work. How would you tell them to approach finding people to talk to?
43:36 SW: Yeah. This is a super, super good question, I love this. So, look, I'm gonna go against the grain. I don't care what anyone else says, because I proved this wrong recently. Cold calling is not dead, you just have to do it differently, but I hate cold calling, don't get me wrong. That's bottom of the barrel sales techniques right there. [chuckle] Obviously, if you've got referrals or leads coming in from somewhere else, serve those potential clients first, but if you have no one, look, cold calling works. And this goes back to mindset, before you even get into cold calling, and I've worked with some folks on this, it's not about... As a salesperson, a lot of salespeople wake up and they're gonna wake and go, "Oh, man, I hope I make $600 in commission today," or whatever kinda lame thing they might think.
44:31 SW: Someone walks through the door of the store or the end of a showroom and they go, "Oh cha-ching," like they see dollar signs where people's heads should be. Lame, stupid stuff. One of the things I work with people on is waking up every morning and saying, "Hey, I wanna serve the world $4,000 worth today." And then really focusing on that and meditating on it and I started off with calls saying, "Hey, I love football and rolled item stuff." Look, I'm not a hippy, I live in Alabama. [laughter] I talk about Milwaukee's best, but in all seriousness, you have to approach sales from a different technique. If all you see is dollar signs, you're doing it wrong. You have to wake up every day knowing that you're serving the world and when you do that there's a fundamental shift psychologically within yourself. And so when you have that, first of all that mental psychological shift birth, then cold calling can be different. You can create a script that people are gonna use.
45:31 SW: And I'll tell you, I run a Facebook group and about six weeks ago, for sales professionals, anyone can be in it, Peak Sales Results Facebook group, but someone asked me said, "Hey, Stan, can you give us some cold calling techniques?" So I was like, "Whoo! I have not done cold calling in a while," but I cleared two hours off of my calender for the very next day and I said, "You know what? I'm gonna do this," because I work with a lot of insurance agents and I thought... And this is the power of the internet and everything in 2017 I said, "I've got lots of sales training. I've got some stuff I can create around insurance agent, I can put it on a membership website and sell it for 1500 bucks." You know? [chuckle]
46:17 JJ: Sure.
46:18 SW: So I spent two hours the next day. I cancelled one call and then I took my lunch hour and then I spent that first hour compiling a list of insurance agents in a major metropolitan area, like different offices, Pharma, State Farm all those guys, Allstate and then I spent an hour compiling that list and then I spent the next hour cold calling. Cold calling for the first time in years, 'cause I wanted to show the people in my Facebook group that this actually works. And long story short, someone paid me money that day. They didn't pay me money on that first call, but I sold a $1,497 training program for insurance agents, how to increase revenue and close more business. The guy called me back that evening and said, "Hey, I wanna sign up," and I was like, "Okay, cool." I said, "All right, you'll have access to your website on Monday because," and he didn't know this, but I gotta create it, [laughter] but I had all the recordings and stuff and I've worked in the industry, so I knew that everything I was teaching would serve him.
47:20 SW: Three people, I can't even remember, I'd have to pull up a spreadsheet, but three people from an hour worth of cold calling have called me back and paid me $1,497. From an hour of cold calling and something I haven't done in years and not to press the point, but cold calling is not dead, you just have to change your approach. And so, yes, you don't wanna be cold calling, you wanna be speaking with leads, but people who are starting out, it's understanding you need to focus on one technique, get really good at it and move on. So, if you're at the bottom of the barrel as a salesperson, look, cold calling is great, if you're mid range and you can invest a few bucks.
48:00 SW: I work with a guy, he's part of a mastermind I work with. I taught him. He sells cellphones and every single time he sells a cellphone, I tell him to build a rapport and everything, the apps are installing on the new cellphones he sells. Tell people to go and like a personal Facebook page and then visit a website that's linked on that page and he pixels them with a Facebook pixel. And so here he is, he's a cellphone salesman. Most people are like, "Oh yeah, that's the guy who work in a kiosk in the mall." Oh yeah, but the dude is gonna bring home over $200,000 from using small little, a Facebook pixel and running a few ads now and then at 25% off the cellphone sales. So there's a lot of different techniques. There's so many different ways, in 2017, anyone can be successful at sales if they get the right training.
48:55 JJ: So what's the different approach? Do you recall when you were doing your cold calling 'cause three sales in an hour's plus worth of work is a decent return.
[laughter]
49:09 SW: It's okay.
49:10 JJ: Yeah, it's not bad. So what was the different approach you took there. You had a helpful approach and you kinda keyed in on a couple of things that we talked about here with some other guests. Yeah, you don't start off with this. "This is all the benefits," and things along those lines that this product will do for you today. It would take me to get you into this before we leave this conversation approach that we get the stereotype of a salesperson that so many people have.
49:43 SW: Yeah. So it's understanding that, once again, you have to psychologically prepare yourself for it and sales and especially if you're gonna do cold calling, it's getting ready for a lot of notes. So I knew going into that hour of calls I was about to make 'cause I had from 1:00 to 2:00 PM. I could cancel my 12:00 but I couldn't cancel my 2:00 call so I knew whatever I was doing had to be done by 2:00. And so I was like I'm just gonna take a lot of nose to the chin right now and go for it. And the approach, like I said, first of, it's psychological. It's actually wanting to serve. So getting on that call, anyone who's done cold calling understands that gate keepers are gonna make a break. [chuckle]
50:25 JJ: True.
50:28 SW: And so, and this is one of the things I teach people I work with one-on-one is relating to that gatekeeper being so abundantly kind to that gatekeeper, asking for... Because usually that gatekeeper who is usually a woman, I'm not stereotyping here. It's just usually a woman, it's just being nice enough and kind enough that this person asking for her email address and saying, "Okay, cool. So if I can't talk to John right now, when would be a good time?" "Okay, cool. Hey, I understand he doesn't usually speak to people who are cold calling. Look Suzie, what is your email address? I wanna send you over a one sentence email. You can kinda check me out and then if you've got any questions, forward it onto John. Let John call me back." And there's a lot of different nice things that you can say in 30-second interaction to let Suzie know I can trust her. And if you can get an email address and just send her a one-sentence email with a link to your website or a like to your product or service or anything else with a little bit of social proof, look, she's gonna forward on the information to John. John who's always my imaginary potential client. Yeah, it's understanding if you go... Anyone that goes in Google and how to get past the gatekeeper right now, most of those articles I think are 15 years old. Those tactics aren't gonna work.
51:47 JJ: And those tactics 15 years ago to kinda recap in what we just finished talking about, it was so very different based on the different ways that consumers buy now where sale cycles are a little different as well. We don't approach buying a television quite the same way that we used to or even looking for a recommendation for a moving company or a realtor. It is completely different these days than it used to be. So what's your forecast in the sales world for the near future? What do you see coming down the lines as far as change goes, and how do you think we could prepare our sales mentalities for these changes?
52:37 SW: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I like that. So I'm really big on... There used to be a very differentiating line, a line in the sand between marketing and sales. So someone would see the ad in the Yellow Pages and then they'd call and then come down to the store and you'd go through a sales process. There's this very old-fashioned differentiation between the marketing and the sales. That's different in 2017. So when I give the example a minute ago of the guy who sells cellphones. Look, he's a cool guy and he's implemented technology that has allowed him to communicate continually with his potential clients. And so no matter what kind of product or service or business you have, you have to understand that you need to find a way to continually be providing content and information for your potential clients. So if that's having a Facebook group, great. If that's running Facebook ads, great. I think every real estate agent in the world should have a Facebook Messenger bot.
53:48 SW: I think every single one of them should and that should be set up on their page and so when someone reaches out and people can pull up a real estate agent's Facebook page and see that they're very responsive, they reply immediately, well the reason they're replying immediately, is 'cause there's a Messenger bot, and it's gonna say, "Hey, I'm so glad you've reached out to me. Are you looking to buy or sell your home?" and let the bot do half the work for you. Everything's coming together now. There's not that differentiation between the marketing and the sale anymore. It's one big, extended process, and so my forecast is look to the future. Look at how you buy things. You Google it, you look on Amazon, you compare prices. So you need to make sure that whatever product or service you have, when people kinda go to compare you to others they can find the information, and so for every product and service that's gonna be different, but it's using the technology we have 'cause anyone in 2017, I believe anyone working very minimally... You can be lazy in 2017 in sales, and still make six figures a year in commission, 100%, I believe.
54:54 KF: I love it. I see on your website there's a book called "The Joy Of The Sale" that's being released soon. What can you tell us about that book, and when do you think it might be released?
55:08 SW: Ooh, that is a good question, I love that. So that is actually a question... Someone was possibly gonna publish it, and then I kinda pulled back. I like, like everyone in the world, I like controlling everything. [chuckle] So I think it will probably, what is it, August right now, it'll probably be December in preparation for the new year, but yeah "The Joy Of The Sale" is part story, part technique, which I tell everyone stories sell. If you can use stories and implement stories in your sales process, look, you're gonna be golden, and that book is gonna be proof of concept with that 'cause my story, which I only told you guys the fun part about Milwaukee's Best at a poker game. Every salesperson has a story, and I think every individual has a story. So yeah, that should come out by the end of the year, and, yeah, it's gonna be showing people how use those stories in a sales process to actually, help people know, like, and trust you more.
56:15 JJ: Very exciting. So besides the book, what else are you working on right now? What else has you really excited at the moment?
56:24 SW: Yeah, so I [chuckle] have a lot of things in the pipeline, actually. [chuckle] So it's kinda like you asked that and I just wanna word vomit everywhere.
56:33 JJ: Awesome. [chuckle]
56:35 SW: Yeah. [chuckle] You asked about that book and I'm like, "What book is it?" because we've actually got two other books lined up hopefully over the next 18 months to come out back to back to back.
56:47 JJ: Oh, cool.
56:48 SW: But in addition to that, I've always kinda spoke, like small conferences, and I do a lot of in-office trainings and stuff like that, but that's what I love, and different people look at it differently, you can serve a lot of people on a small level, or you can serve a small group of people on a big level, and I like my business to be half and half. So I'm doing a lot more speaking and so, I love that, 'cause it's being able to serve a lot more people just a little bit to hopefully kinda bring them in to change their lives for the better.
57:24 KF: Awesome. Hey, Stan, ton of great value today. What's the best way for our listeners to get in touch with you?
57:31 SW: Yeah, so, really the best way is gonna be if you're in sales, you want to be in sales, you wanna network with a cool group of sales professionals, I say, "Hey, head to Facebook." Peak Sales Results Facebook group, or just check me out at peaksalesresults.com. That's really just my home base for everything, but yeah, that's definitely the best way.
57:52 KF: Perfect. Hey, before we say goodbye, what is one piece of parting advice that you would give to our listening audience?
58:00 SW: Just do it. [chuckle] I think a lot of people listen to podcasts, and I can say this personally as someone who is podcast junkie. In a corporate sales training position that I hated, I listen to podcasts all day every day, and I'd get really inspired, but I wouldn't take action, and sadly, it took me more years in my life than it should've ever taken to actually just go take the action. So, yeah, anyone who listens to this, just go do it. The worst thing that can happen is you're gonna fail, and if you're gonna fail, fail fast, and then do it again. That's it, just go do it.
58:36 JJ: Here Neon Noise Nation, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Stan. Be sure to go over and check out his website at peaksalesresults.com or online on Facebook at Peak Sales Results. Stan, thanks again for being on the show today, we really enjoyed our time with you today. The show notes for today wil be available at neongoldfish.com/podcast, until next time this is Justin, Ken, and Stan signing off. Neon Noise Nation, we will see you again next week.
[music]
59:07 S?: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Neon Noise podcast. Did you enjoy the podcast? If so, please subscribe, share with a friend or write a review. We wanna cover the topics you wanna hear. If you have an idea for a topic you'd like Justin and Ken to cover, connect with us on Twitter @neongoldfish, or through our website at neongoldfish.com.
00:16 Justin Johnson: Hey, hey, hey, Neon Noise Nation, this is the Neon Noise podcast where we decode marketing and sales topics to help you grow your business. What's going on, everybody? This is Justin Johnson and with me, I have my co-host, Mr. Ken Franzen. What's up, Ken? How is life treating you today?
00:31 Ken Franzen: Life is fantastic today, Justin. Little bit cooler weather here up in Ohio, getting ready for a little football that's starting up this weekend. I'm excited to, not wish summer away just yet but I'm also excited for fall to come and to cheer on my favorite teams. And hopefully get to November when Michigan beats Ohio state. So looking forward to all that.
[chuckle]
01:00 JJ: All right, well yeah, November is a little ways away but good luck with the November 25th date. Anyhoo so excited to hear from our featured guest today, he is an expert when it comes to coaching individuals and teams to achieve peak sales results. Today we will be speaking with Stan Way. He is the CEO of Peak Sales Results where he teaches entrepreneurs the scientifically proven most effective ways to make sales and increase their income on demand. That sounds pretty cool, I can definitely use a little bit of income on demand myself. Stan, it is good to have you on today, welcome to Neon Noise.
01:41 Stan Way: All right, yeah. I am just glad to be in a place where A, we're gonna talk about some cool stuff in regards to business but B, with some football fans. I like...
01:53 JJ: And correct me, you are from Alabama so I'm assuming you're a Hyde fan.
02:00 SW: Yeah. I will... And no offense to any listeners who might go for other people people but Hyde...
[overlapping conversation]
02:08 JJ: Hey, as a matter a fact, the last time my team played your team, we did okay so Ken's not so much. But...
[laughter]
02:20 KF: No, you guys demolished Michigan the last time we played you guys in the opener there at the AT&T stadium. That was a little embarrassing but Justin's a Buckeye fan so...
02:32 JJ: Love it.
02:32 KF: He comes from a little bit different of a background.
02:34 SW: That is okay and my dad's family's actually from Michigan so I have to... It's like double allegiance in my blood and so, yeah, I like it very much.
02:44 JJ: Wow, good stuff.
02:45 SW: Michigan banter as well so, yeah. Whoo! So, yeah, glad to be here though guys.
02:51 JJ: Very, very good. Hey, do me a favor and fill in the blanks on anything I may have missed and share with us a little bit about your background.
02:57 SW: Sure, yeah. So those intros are always so friendly. It's funny, I get to hear [laughter] other people say nice things about me...
[laughter]
03:03 KF: Everybody says that, by the way.
[laughter]
03:05 SW: Which is really nice, I like that. I do run Peak Sales Result, peaksalesresults.com and I do work with sales professionals in businesses large and small. Kinda perfect the sales process and sales technique. My background is [chuckle] varied. I joke around and say, "Hey, I was a salesperson as a little kid." I remember my mom, and my mom's family were really, really big into poker games when I was a little kid and we're... [chuckle] And this might reveal a lot about my family, I'm not sure if they would appreciate me saying this but the poker game would start on Friday night and end like Monday morning 4:00 AM.
03:55 JJ: Hey, that's not a bad deal.
03:56 SW: Yeah.
[chuckle]
03:57 JJ: It's a nice game.
04:00 SW: Yeah, good poker game. But it was funny because there was always beer and I remember my older cousins, my aunts and my uncles and these random strangers from down the street coming in and they'd plop down the 24 case of Milwaukee's Best. The best. And...
04:15 JJ: Quality baby.
04:17 SW: [chuckle] And I remember as a little kid, I was five or six years old and I'd wait till they were two or three beers in. I would set my little toy cash register up on top of the 24 pack. And they'd say, "Hey, pass me a beer," and I'd say, "Okay, cool, that'd be three bucks." So sales has been in my blood. I no longer [chuckle] sell alcohol to inebriated people or family members. But yeah, it's been fun. I started when I was 21. I started selling life and health insurance and that's kind of a story in and of itself. My stepfather kinda helped me get started there but I quickly realized I was 21 years old, I was making a six-figure a year income and the rest of my friends were still in college with lots of student loan debt. And I was like, "Whoo! [chuckle] living the life."
05:08 SW: But it's funny because I made a lot of money, then I lost a lot of money and I've went through that cycle three times in life now until it finally occurred to me that there's a lot of mental things and things that happen inside our head that caused those ups and downs in business and in income to happen. And so when I work with salespeople and work with businesses and even large Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies, it's about getting internally into people's internal psyche to help them A, overcome their own mental stuff but then B, overcome the customers mental blocks from actually getting on board. So yeah, that kind of a short introduction. [chuckle] Selling beer to family members is a lot less fancy than what...
05:57 JJ: It's a pretty good return, man.
06:01 KF: I still like it 'cause I think $2 for a Milwaukee's Best is probably more than they paid for in the store, right?
06:07 SW: I know, I hate Milwaukee's Best should probably hire me, if anyone's listening.
06:12 JJ: There we go. Stay in touch on those mental triggers you just mentioned, you said there's mental triggers that make those ups and downs happen. What do you mean by those?
06:22 SW: Sure, and to speak to the audience that you've got here. Obviously, you guys run a super successful business, leaders in your industry, obviously expanding. I've worked with a lot of people in digital marketing and it's kinda funny, it doesn't matter the business, it doesn't matter the vertical, the niche, the product, or the service that anyone is selling. What happens is that you can see other people succeeding in it and you can sacrifice and invest in your own coaching and training, or maybe buy a program or something and you can start it, but most people fail. Let's be really honest, over 95% of businesses that start out are gonna be gone and dead in the next five years.
07:11 SW: And it's usually not because of skill set so much. Now, sometimes it's because of skill set [chuckle] because people don't invest in their education enough for their business but most of the time, it's a mindset issue. It's imposter syndrome. It's not believing that you can actually do it. It's not having a clear road map in front of you. It's not actually seeing yourself and your product, your service, your business actually fulfilling your core desires. And so that's why when I work with people...
07:41 JJ: I love that.
07:42 SW: In businesses, I help them figure out, "What do you even want in life first?" Because if what you're doing doesn't serve what you actually want, you're probably gonna fail and burn out.
07:53 KF: You mentioned impostor syndrome, can you explain what that is for some of our listeners that might not know?
08:00 SW: Sure, yeah, So impostor syndrome, and I will use my wife as an example here. My wife is super talented, she's an amazing photographer. When we first started dating a few years ago, she had a pretty cool expensive camera [chuckle], a camera I actually was envious of and wanted in my business, because it was so expensive. And she took some photographs and everything and she was okay, I mean, she was okay when we were dating and stuff but she had a real passion for photography. My wife, she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, she's highly educated, and she said, "I wanna be a stay-at-home mom with our kids." And so she was doing that with our small children but she really wanted to serve the world on a higher level and get back into photography.
08:49 SW: So she got the proper coaching, and mentoring, and training and got really, really good, so good that she was featured in some really great publications. But it's so funny, she's a wedding photographer, her starting package I think starts off at like $3,500 for a wedding but it's so funny because even though she's beloved by everyone, she still most Saturdays when she leaves for a wedding she goes, "I can't believe I'm doing this. I can't believe people pay me to do this. It doesn't even make sense."
09:21 SW: And I think most people suffer from that in business, and it really comes down to the fact that, and there's some psychological studies we could talk more about, people actually hold themselves back because they have integrity, [chuckle] which is good. If you have impostor syndrome it means you're a good person working from a core of integrity but it's funny because if you have integrity, you don't wanna put yourself out there, you don't want to put your product, your service, your business out there but at the same time you're holding yourself back. And so people say, "Well, I can never do that because... " fill in the blank with a lame excuse. And so it comes down to just getting rid of the lame excuses because the only difference between...
10:04 SW: You guys run a successful business and have a really cool podcast, other people want to do it, the only difference between you and the other guys is that you guys do it, and that's it and that applies to any business. Is the only difference between people who are actually succeeding and not succeeding are just the people that do it. Because I remember back in 2007, I joined a mastermind from some cool, well, actually really cool internet marketers wanted to learn how to grow my own business and there were two guys in that program with me who had crummier jobs than I had, and we're making a lot money that I was.
10:42 SW: But I watched them over a six-month period while I still stayed in my corporate sales position. [chuckle] I was like, "I'm comfy here." I watched these guys go and launch their own businesses, their own programs. I remember in 2012 watching both of them make videos online and be like, "Yeah, we're millionaires but it's cool because blah, blah, blah." And I had this huge impostor syndrome and I was like, "Well, what's the difference between me and them? I know all of the same things." They just did it, and that's usually the big difference for folks.
11:14 JJ: We see that a lot when we're talking with clients. We encourage them and I believe we can get through this a little bit more perhaps in a bit, but you work with a lot of content with sales as well, correct?
11:27 SW: Yeah, yeah.
11:29 JJ: Absolutely, and we see this with the content strategies we work with our clients. A lot of times they have that same approach, "Well, I'm not... " And so and so is doing that, they look like the expert and they see these other people rise to, let's say, rise to success or they receive this additional exposure. And the only difference, and it's hard to convince those people, they do know their stuff they just won't put their words on up in a blog post or put themselves out on camera and I think it's that fear that goes along with like you wife says, "I can't believe that I get paid to do this." It's not that so much, they're not good enough but even that fear of even putting themselves out there, right?
12:17 SW: Yeah, and for a lot of people, when people work with me one-on-one, they get the 75-page PDF, it's pretty bulky, but one of the... It's actually the second thing that we work with is looking at your circle of influence and circle of friends and family and kind of judiciously going through that list of people that you create and saying, "Hey, yeah, they're good, they build me up," or, "Hey, yeah, they're not." [chuckle] And that holds people in conjunction with impostor syndrome, that's what holds people back a lot is because they're so afraid of being judged by Aunt Suzie and putting on Facebook and saying, "Hey, I've got this new business. It's a really cool thing," and then Aunt Suzie coming back in and being like, "Well, you dropped out of college and you suck."
[laughter]
13:09 SW: Everyone has an Aunt Suzie. Some of us have five Aunt Suzie and so it's understanding that you just kinda have to cut those people out of your life in the most respectful kind loving way. Just forget about what they say and if you announce your business or say something on Facebook or on Twitter or whatever you do at the family barbecue, just kind of smile and be like, "Screw you Suzie." In a nice way.
[laughter]
13:38 KF: I love it. I love it. You mentioned that your methods are scientifically proven. What do you mean by that?
13:47 SW: So this is one of the things that kinda sets me apart from other people that kinda do what I do. No one really does what I do which is cool. I love that. There are really cool people. You guys recently had on Ryan Schuman. I love Ryan Schuman, he's cool. There's Grant Cardone. Then we could get really old school and go with some Palm Hawkins kind of stuff with sales. These are all really cool guys. They really serve their audiences. I [chuckle] don't have a lot of products and stuff to sell 'cause I do, I work one-on-one and then with major corporations and in-office and do a lot of one on one stuff, but those guys are all really cool and they give, by all means, go buy their stuff guys. If you're in sales and need some help, go buy Ryan Schuman's stuff, it's cool. [chuckle] Here's a plug for him, but what differentiates me is that I don't teach a lot of... Well, we do get into closing tactics and scripts and practicing and closing loops and word tracks and slide decks and all sorts of, all these generic kinda sales terms.
15:01 SW: But I start off, if someone worked with me one-on-one, they will work with me for four weeks before we ever get into "Hey, this is what my pitch sounds like," because we work with a lot of internal stuff. And so I use a lot of scientifically based, evidence-proven kind of things to actually make you change your mindset. It's kinda like, I was joking around and saying Tony Robins has the Power Within weekend. I kinda do a Power Within intensive for four weeks, and it's to change your mental mindset because you have to change internally to understand where you want to take your life to actually be successful in anything you want to do. And then when we do get the sales tactics and everything else, it's understanding that sales, first of all, you need to be passionate about what you're doing that you actually need to truly be serving. And I work with car salesmen every now and then and it's funny because every car salesman I end up working with ends up leaving car sales and going and doing something else. And nothing is wrong with car salespeople.
16:13 SW: I think they're great and hey, everyone drives a car but they get out of it because they see in the sales process of being a car salesman that they actually don't like the little bit of deceit and lack of integrity in that industry. And so they go and find a different product or service to sell which is awesome because then that serves their core integrity value and then they can go serve the world with a higher purpose. And so then it's moving into a sales process and actually using proven techniques to help a potential client or a customer move through a sales process and overcome their own mental obstacles and hurdles. And I'm sure you guys deal with it a lot. You know you have clients that you guys can serve 100%. You have all the case studies and all the social proof, but you guys probably have clients that are just too afraid to invest with you, would be my assumption.
17:03 KF: True. Now there's some there where we wish they would employ some more encompassing strategies, but that's just it that sometimes that we haven't showed them a story compelling enough to get them to do that investment I guess is the case there. But one question I had. You mentioned changing mental mindset. Can you dive in a little bit more on maybe what, and we're gonna get some general, we'll go to some general generalities here where hey, this is non-encompassing of anyone in particular but more of the general average, I guess, is what I'm searching for. What does someone look like when they come to you? I don't wanna say broken they are or when they begin working with you, what is the trigger for this shift in the mental mindset? Why do you start there?
18:05 SW: I start there... Look, some people are already there, just to be frank. Some people who are just really good at what they're doing in business or in sales are already there. But that is very few. I would honestly say less than 5%. And so you're asking of like a general "Hey, who comes and work with you?" I work with a guy last year. He started working with me, invested with me. He was homeless. I didn't know it at the time. He invested thousands of dollars with me and was homeless and living in his car and was moving across the country to move in with some family members. So that's one end of the spectrum. And now the guy's doing awesome. He nets I think about $25,000 a month in sales in his business right now. Very cool guy.
19:02 SW: But then the other end of the spectrum is large, very well put together businesses who have large teams and I'll use a digital marketing agency I worked with recently. They've got two dozen employees. They've been in business for 15 years that they're super great at what they do. They've always depended upon referrals though and not charging enough for their services. And so [chuckle] it's kinda helping them understand, "Well, where do you really wanna go? How does your business serve you?" And then actually help them understand their value. Because there are a lot of people that are just undercharging for their services.
19:44 SW: Especially in the digital marketing space where there's folks that'll charge $250 a month to run your Facebook ad or there's folks that'll charge $5,000 a month to run your Facebook ad. Well yeah, there's [chuckle] a happy medium there and it doesn't really matter how much people are charging. What matters is how much you're actually helping your client or your potential client on the backend. And so it's understanding your value. And so when it comes to helping people change their mind set, depending on the industry, the product or service. We have some questionnaires we go through. I work with them one on one. And help them kinda see where they're at because most people will admit that they have imposter syndrome or that they're not charging enough for their products or services or that they'll come to this realization that they just have all the skill set, they're just not taking action. And so then kinda coaching them one-on-one from there because all those people are different. You have to handle them differently. Yeah so it's helping people on the level that they need to be helped at. If that kinda makes sense.
20:54 KF: It does. Thank you. So from an aspect of coaching. What do you say to the person that might not be totally sold on a coach? Why would someone want to or should they hire a sales coach?
21:08 SW: And that's really good. Someone actually wrote an article the other day and featured me in it on the 10 reasons why you need a sales coach. And I appreciated it because it started off, the number one reason was all great people have coaches. And someone had a picture of Michael Jordan there with Phil Jackson. [chuckle] And that's so true and it kinda speaks to your guys' industry. I've worked, for the last couple years I've worked, like I said, with a lot of digital marketing agencies, a lot of people that run Facebook ad. A lot of ecommerce clients and it's funny because in conversations with an ecommerce point, someone that wants their own Facebook ads, I will always kinda say, "Okay, well, cool, tell me about your store. Tell me about your product. Who's run your Facebook ads? Did you do it?" And if someone ran their own Facebook ads I'd say, "Oh okay. Cool. Well, kinda tell me, give me an example of a time you've run a Facebook ad and seen a good return on investment?" And that's always a very powerful... In that situation, very powerful question to ask that type of client because what happens is they're usually just gonna tell you everything you need to know, to know exactly where they learned. And so... And I'll give this example.
22:30 SW: I spoke to a lot of people over the last couple years who've said, "Oh, well this. And I had to see some of [22:35] ____ the pixel and then I had to do this, this and this." And I'd say, "Okay, cool. So it sounds to me like you bought this course by so and so to learn how to run Facebook ads. Is that right?" And people would go, "Whoa, how'd you know that?" and I'd say, "Oh, well, because you just said exactly what they taught." And [chuckle] I'd say, "Okay, cool. So you spent $3,000 on this course. Kinda tell me, you're obviously speaking to me now. You need someone else to run a Facebook ad. Give me an example of why is this not working at this point for you?" And it's funny because once again it's not skill set. A lot of times it's mindset.
23:14 SW: And so in those situations walking someone through a sales process like that, when you're in sales, if you're just a master in your industry and you know it like the back of your hand, I can ask those questions on a sales call across multiple industries and know who they've learned things from. If I ask you about Facebook ad, I can find out without you telling me who taught, where you learned to do Facebook ad 'cause I've bought all the courses. [chuckle] If you're trying to do drop shipping or ecommerce or any of these other things or you're in sales and you learned a particular closing price, I can tell where you learned it. And so I say all of that because a lot of people have went and invested in their education and spent a few, 50 bucks, a couple hundred bucks, a few thousand dollars on programs, that for some people work.
24:08 SW: And they work for some people because they're mentally, there they can just take the action. Other people don't though, other people don't take the action. And it's because they're missing that personal aspect. And so to go back to your base question, why do people need a coach? Well some people just need to be told straight up like it is. I had a morning about three months ago where my 9:00 AM, my 10:00 AM, and my 11:00 AM calls they were all wonderful women that I've worked with for months but I made them all cry. [laughter] By 9:30 they're weeping, weeping on the phone and by 10:30 there was weeping on the phone and 11:30 there was weeping on the phone, so I went to lunch with my wife and she's like, "What is wrong?"
24:53 SW: And I said, "I just made a lot of women cry." But that's part of being a coach, it's telling people the straight, honest truth but loving them enough and seeing their potential enough to be able to give them the action steps to get there because so many people are held back usually by so many different things, once again imposter syndrome, mental roadblocks, Aunt Suzie, whatever it is. You have to help them overcome it. So for some people look a program's great, for other people coaching is great but for most people, most people need a coach. That's why Facebook, I'm kinda speaking to your industry again, Facebook blueprint is an amazing, amazing, amazing resource. Anyone could go and, if they were a go-getter, go and run their own Facebook Ad but most people can't, 'cause they don't have the time, the commitment, or the passion for it, and that's all there is to it. So if someone wanted to do that they would need to get a good coach or hire you guys.
25:51 JJ: Sure. And we tell them that often times as well is, hey everything you need to do for Facebook, Google AdWords is online and it's well documented if you wanna go through the steps. The difference is, much like your trade, you're better at it than I am, so I should hire you to be my attorney or my brain surgeon just because you've a little bit more experience and the know how there, the trade off is worth the investment.
26:25 SW: Yeah and I'll tell you if I can say this, and I don't like the word hate. I think hate is a bad four-letter word. Here in the Way household we try not to say the word hate, but I'm gonna say it, I hate DIY-ers. I hate them. [chuckle] And in business, and even in life in a little respect, because look, if you wanna remodel your bathroom, that's cool and if you wanna DIY that that's cool. But for me and from my sales perspective, I would much rather spend the next 26 weekends of my life creating an income-producing activity that would pay for that bathroom and 13 more. And it goes for business as well. A lot of people wanna DIY their way through a website. Like, why create a website? I can give you a guy on Fiverr that'll create you an amazing website for 65 bucks and it'll look better than anyone else in your industry, and be set up correctly, you know?
27:22 JJ: Sure.
27:24 SW: DIY-ers, I respect them but I think that sometimes they're looking backwards at their business. A lot of time with salespeople it's the exact same thing. You have to switch it backwards and say, "Why do you wanna do that?" Even a sales schedule or an appointment schedule, like, "Why do you want to deal with that and call and confirm your own people? Outsource that, spend $15 bucks a day, let someone else do it and focus on doing what you're good at, which is selling, hopefully."
27:54 KF: Absolutely. Now you call yourself a sales coach, how does this differ from a business coach or a life coach? 'Cause there's a lot of... The coaching world's very popular right now and I'm just looking for... 'Cause some of the items you talked about in the foundational exploration wouldn't be something I would consider a sales coach to jump into. So, can you kind of jump into that a little bit more, and tell us how a sales coach is different from the more common business or life coach?
28:29 SW: Sure, I'll take this phrase which is often said in my industry which is "everything in life is sales." Everything, and it starts with marketing. From the first time people see your first ad online, your first banner ad or something in a newspaper. Everything in life is sales and it starts with marketing. What differentiates a sales coach from anyone else? To speak to your point, there are, [chuckle] this is what's wrong with 2017 right now when we're recording this interview, is that a lot of people, I say a lot of people, almost everyone online is raising their hand and saying they're a coach, "I'm a coach, I can teach you how to do this." The fact is, as you look at their background and you say, "Okay, cool, what's your social proof there?" Well there is no social proof, I've never done this before. I watched a YouTube video.
29:25 SW: Gary V got me really pumped up which is great, I'm glad people get excited but there's all sorts of different coaches in different industries. A business coach is gonna kinda give you an overall plan and lay it out a little bit differently than I would. You talked about a mindset coach, honestly so much of what I cover is mindset that if you're in sales I don't think you need a mindset coach, I think you just need a good sales coach 'cause a good sales coach is gonna help you through that, so I'm very specific in that, all of my business honestly comes to me though referrals. I don't have to run ads for myself. I would like to, and grow and do all sorts of different stuff, but right now I help so many people in my industry, both one-on-one, but also in the coaching industry. Thats kinda where the majority of my income comes from, is actually helping legitimate real coaches online build out their sales processes.
30:32 SW: And I've worked with some really amazing, really well-known headline kinda coaches. And every time I work with them they kinda implement their online sales processes, and hire their virtual sales teams. It's this new fun and exciting thing because not a lot of people do that, and not a lot of people know how to implement a virtual sales team or a coach or for a business. I do that a lot, [chuckle] that's actually what I spend the majority of my time doing, is building up virtual sales teams for businesses. I just like the personal aspect of working one-on-one with you. Which is two different things, but I say that because a good sales coach is gonna help you in a lot of different facets of your business. And has to understand in 2017 everything from scheduling software, to pay-per-click advertisement, it's all sales.
31:28 KF: You made mention of building up virtual sales teams. And one thing that I had noted here that I wanted to ask about is, Justin and I in the passed 10 years of owning Neon Goldfish or founding Neon Goldfish 10 years ago, we've went through lots of peaks and valleys. And we've had different salespeople help us in our sales efforts. We've always struggled so, so very much to find anyone that cared as much as we did and sold with the same level of excitement, engagement, integrity, which is a word that I've heard you use several times. And so how do you help an entrepreneur find those types of individuals, and is that the virtual sales team or is that something different?
32:28 SW: Yeah, no, that is part of building a virtual sales team. And you're exactly right. If you haven't done it before, it's almost impossible to know how to find a virtual sales team, or how to build one. And so that's what I do a lot for folks. Because I come in and I'm kinda like a drill sergeant. [chuckle] And it's not because I'm some mean guy, I like to think I'm a pretty nice guy. I don't push over Aunt Suzie too often. [laughter] But the fact is that you just have to hold your salespeople, business developers, whatever you wanna call them, you have to hold them accountable. And so it comes with posting the right type of ad, to the right type of people, saying the right type of things, having the right kind of copy in that ad to attract the right type of people. Taking them through a correct interview process, giving them a correct probationary period, and then, and most importantly, a lot of people think I'm crazy when I say this, is making sure this business developer or salesperson, anyone that comes on your team to do this is commission based. 100% commission based.
33:41 SW: And the reason I recommend and say that, and would recommend that to anyone listening to this is because that way they have skin in the game. That way they are going to be just as passionate as you. But you have to sell yourself, and your business, and your vision, and your social proof to your person. It's [chuckle] a two way sale really. And so when I work with businesses that's what I have to do. I have to sell the business to the right group of salespeople that we've attracted. And then it's holding them super accountable. Now, if it's a virtual sales team, and they're doing phone calls or Skype or Zoom, however they're meeting with people; it's making sure that they follow industry standard. And when I say industry standard I mean, look at HubSpot.
34:29 SW: You speak to a sales rep with HubSpot or SalesForce, you get on the phone with one of these really well trained guys, they're gonna start the call and they're gonna say, "Hey, John, is it okay if I record today's conversation? That way if you have any questions or anything at all, or if you want a copy of the recording I can send it to you afterwards." "Okay, cool." And that's what HubSpot does. They're an industry leader in inbound marketing. And so it's not about reinventing the wheel, it's just holding a virtual sales team or any salesperson to those standards of saying, "Okay cool, if you're gonna work with me you have to record every call." Now make sure that you're doing it legally. Much like in the way I just gave the example, ask for permission.
35:14 SW: If they say, "No," okay, don't record the call; but make sure they're recording the call. And the reason for that is because it's so important for a good salesperson to go back and review their pitch and their process, so important. So, so, so important. And thats part of just sales 101. Is you have to review what you're doing. But then second of all, you as the employer or any business as an employer that has a virtual sales team, you can go at random and listen to these recordings; and go, "Oh, man, whoo! He is really not that great in this one area," and coaching around it. If that kinda makes sense. So it is a difficult process, but once we've done it once, and seen it done, it's easy to duplicate, but it's hard because there are a lot of moving pieces in having a team like that.
36:06 KF: You mentioned Sales 101 and reviewing the pitch through these recorded calls, what are some of the common mistakes you encounter with either salespeople or entrepreneurs in their selling efforts?
36:26 SW: It all goes back to what we talked about at the beginning, it's usually lack of confidence. I listen to a lot of people's sales call recordings. [chuckle] I've listened to thousands and thousands at this point. And it doesn't matter if it's a one call kind of close process, or a two call close, or a three call close, it doesn't matter what kind of close, or situation, or product, or service it is, it's usually lack of confidence. When I first listened to these kind of recordings, and so me, as a professional, I can come in and say, "Hey, they just opened up and told you what they really wanted, but you were trying to sell them something else, because maybe you're not as confident in that area," or something like that. But it's usually confidence almost 100% of the time, and then it's moving into actually serving and selling what your client wants. I've worked [chuckle] with Direct TV sales reps before, and a Direct TV sales rep, that sales process is kinda asking about the current TV setup that someone has in their home.
37:36 SW: And someone might say, "Well, I've got AT&T U-verse, and I like it for this reason, I don't like it for this reason, but I can't DVR more than a couple of things at the time." Oh, well, if they say that, that's a huge selling point for someone selling Direct TV 'cause... And I can't even remember, you can DVR like 85 things at once, or something crazy like that. But a lot of times sales reps would not even hear that. They would just move on and try to sell NFL Sunday Ticket or something crazy that the client doesn't want or care about, and it doesn't matter that the product, the service, or the industry, that's almost always the case. It's lack of confidence and not selling to what your potential client actually wants. 'Cause if you just say, "Hey, what do you want? Why are you even talking to me?" they're gonna tell you. 'Cause no one wants to be sold to, they just wanna get it over with, so they'll tell you what they want.
38:25 KF: Would you say that someone looking to increase their close rate as well should look at either their sales pitch and how confident they are in the delivery, and/or opening up those ears a little bit and making sure that you're keying into those verbal cues that the clients tell them, "I don't need that, but here's something that does frustrate me"?
38:49 SW: Yeah, I think everyone in sales should be recording their sales pitch. So, I don't care if you're the car salesman and you've put your iPhone upside down in your shirt pocket with the microphone up as you're talking to people out on the lot, or you're a real estate agent who's showing a house, or if you're someone that's selling something over the phone, I think everyone should be recording their sales pitch. The reason being, and there's lots of scientific data and study that goes into this, is that if you just review that, most of the time you can actually self-correct that without even hiring someone else. So you can go, "Whoo, man, that was terrible, that was horrid." The reason most people don't like hearing their voice is because they're not comfortable with what they're saying. It's a confidence issue, and that's never more evident than in a sales process. And so I think everyone should record it, but yeah, when you do that you can self-correct and not always self-diagnose, but you can self-correct a lot of the bad things that you are doing.
40:00 KF: And you're saying with that then to get it into a more consistent delivery, more confident delivery, what should they be looking for if they're recording this, they're going back, they're playing the recorded audio, they identify a verbal cue they might've missed or they say, "Well, I sound like a bumbling fool here... " What are the cues that they should be keying in on?
40:24 SW: Yeah, well more than anything, what does the potential client want? That's all that's really important at the end of the day. If your product and service is good, great. It's gonna serve the need for a potential client, and here's the thing, anyone that's in sales, I think, anyone that's really good at sales is often going to start a sales process, find out some discovery questions from their potential client, and find out that they're not a good fit. And then, if they're a really good salesperson, they'll refer them to someone else, plain and simple. Because if you're working from a core of integrity, let's be honest, whatever your service or product you have, it's not gonna fit everyone. The jet ski isn't the perfect fit for every family.
41:15 SW: So it's finding out what the potential client wants. And so when you listen to these recordings, yeah, it's asking the right discovery questions, which is back to Sales 101, which should be after rapport building, finding out what the potential client wants, and sometimes look, you're the perfect fit and sometimes you're not. And if you're not, hey refer them to someone else. Maybe you don't get a referral fee, depending on your industry, but if you do that... Look, a potential client who, and this happens to me all the time, I refer people to different sales training all the time, and they'll go and take different sales training and pay money to someone else, quite a bit of money, but they'll come back to me a few months later when they're ready for coaching and they're at a different place in their business and that can apply to almost any industry. When you're just a cool guy and [42:07] ____ out, look, I call it karma point or whatever you want, it's gonna come back to you.
42:13 JJ: I like it. I do. I think that there is a need to identify qualify early in the stages of that conversation, because you don't wanna waste their time, you don't wanna waste your own time in a talk track that won't lead to depending on where you're positioned. Good stuff. Here's a question I love talking with salespeople about, because when I started my post-college career, I was in sales selling copy machines door to door to businesses and I used to...
42:52 SW: Oh, man, look at you. Awesome.
42:53 JJ: Yeah. I use to do the dreaded cold calling with a stack of business cards and a thick skin on my back, because no one wanted to buy a copy machine ever. And so back then it was cold calling, it was picking up the phone, it was going knocking on doors. That's drastically changed in today's world. Cold calling is "dead" and I wanted to ask you what your thoughts were on that and what would you recommend to a business owner, an entrepreneur, somebody starting of or a salesperson starting of without a book of business to work. How would you tell them to approach finding people to talk to?
43:36 SW: Yeah. This is a super, super good question, I love this. So, look, I'm gonna go against the grain. I don't care what anyone else says, because I proved this wrong recently. Cold calling is not dead, you just have to do it differently, but I hate cold calling, don't get me wrong. That's bottom of the barrel sales techniques right there. [chuckle] Obviously, if you've got referrals or leads coming in from somewhere else, serve those potential clients first, but if you have no one, look, cold calling works. And this goes back to mindset, before you even get into cold calling, and I've worked with some folks on this, it's not about... As a salesperson, a lot of salespeople wake up and they're gonna wake and go, "Oh, man, I hope I make $600 in commission today," or whatever kinda lame thing they might think.
44:31 SW: Someone walks through the door of the store or the end of a showroom and they go, "Oh cha-ching," like they see dollar signs where people's heads should be. Lame, stupid stuff. One of the things I work with people on is waking up every morning and saying, "Hey, I wanna serve the world $4,000 worth today." And then really focusing on that and meditating on it and I started off with calls saying, "Hey, I love football and rolled item stuff." Look, I'm not a hippy, I live in Alabama. [laughter] I talk about Milwaukee's best, but in all seriousness, you have to approach sales from a different technique. If all you see is dollar signs, you're doing it wrong. You have to wake up every day knowing that you're serving the world and when you do that there's a fundamental shift psychologically within yourself. And so when you have that, first of all that mental psychological shift birth, then cold calling can be different. You can create a script that people are gonna use.
45:31 SW: And I'll tell you, I run a Facebook group and about six weeks ago, for sales professionals, anyone can be in it, Peak Sales Results Facebook group, but someone asked me said, "Hey, Stan, can you give us some cold calling techniques?" So I was like, "Whoo! I have not done cold calling in a while," but I cleared two hours off of my calender for the very next day and I said, "You know what? I'm gonna do this," because I work with a lot of insurance agents and I thought... And this is the power of the internet and everything in 2017 I said, "I've got lots of sales training. I've got some stuff I can create around insurance agent, I can put it on a membership website and sell it for 1500 bucks." You know? [chuckle]
46:17 JJ: Sure.
46:18 SW: So I spent two hours the next day. I cancelled one call and then I took my lunch hour and then I spent that first hour compiling a list of insurance agents in a major metropolitan area, like different offices, Pharma, State Farm all those guys, Allstate and then I spent an hour compiling that list and then I spent the next hour cold calling. Cold calling for the first time in years, 'cause I wanted to show the people in my Facebook group that this actually works. And long story short, someone paid me money that day. They didn't pay me money on that first call, but I sold a $1,497 training program for insurance agents, how to increase revenue and close more business. The guy called me back that evening and said, "Hey, I wanna sign up," and I was like, "Okay, cool." I said, "All right, you'll have access to your website on Monday because," and he didn't know this, but I gotta create it, [laughter] but I had all the recordings and stuff and I've worked in the industry, so I knew that everything I was teaching would serve him.
47:20 SW: Three people, I can't even remember, I'd have to pull up a spreadsheet, but three people from an hour worth of cold calling have called me back and paid me $1,497. From an hour of cold calling and something I haven't done in years and not to press the point, but cold calling is not dead, you just have to change your approach. And so, yes, you don't wanna be cold calling, you wanna be speaking with leads, but people who are starting out, it's understanding you need to focus on one technique, get really good at it and move on. So, if you're at the bottom of the barrel as a salesperson, look, cold calling is great, if you're mid range and you can invest a few bucks.
48:00 SW: I work with a guy, he's part of a mastermind I work with. I taught him. He sells cellphones and every single time he sells a cellphone, I tell him to build a rapport and everything, the apps are installing on the new cellphones he sells. Tell people to go and like a personal Facebook page and then visit a website that's linked on that page and he pixels them with a Facebook pixel. And so here he is, he's a cellphone salesman. Most people are like, "Oh yeah, that's the guy who work in a kiosk in the mall." Oh yeah, but the dude is gonna bring home over $200,000 from using small little, a Facebook pixel and running a few ads now and then at 25% off the cellphone sales. So there's a lot of different techniques. There's so many different ways, in 2017, anyone can be successful at sales if they get the right training.
48:55 JJ: So what's the different approach? Do you recall when you were doing your cold calling 'cause three sales in an hour's plus worth of work is a decent return.
[laughter]
49:09 SW: It's okay.
49:10 JJ: Yeah, it's not bad. So what was the different approach you took there. You had a helpful approach and you kinda keyed in on a couple of things that we talked about here with some other guests. Yeah, you don't start off with this. "This is all the benefits," and things along those lines that this product will do for you today. It would take me to get you into this before we leave this conversation approach that we get the stereotype of a salesperson that so many people have.
49:43 SW: Yeah. So it's understanding that, once again, you have to psychologically prepare yourself for it and sales and especially if you're gonna do cold calling, it's getting ready for a lot of notes. So I knew going into that hour of calls I was about to make 'cause I had from 1:00 to 2:00 PM. I could cancel my 12:00 but I couldn't cancel my 2:00 call so I knew whatever I was doing had to be done by 2:00. And so I was like I'm just gonna take a lot of nose to the chin right now and go for it. And the approach, like I said, first of, it's psychological. It's actually wanting to serve. So getting on that call, anyone who's done cold calling understands that gate keepers are gonna make a break. [chuckle]
50:25 JJ: True.
50:28 SW: And so, and this is one of the things I teach people I work with one-on-one is relating to that gatekeeper being so abundantly kind to that gatekeeper, asking for... Because usually that gatekeeper who is usually a woman, I'm not stereotyping here. It's just usually a woman, it's just being nice enough and kind enough that this person asking for her email address and saying, "Okay, cool. So if I can't talk to John right now, when would be a good time?" "Okay, cool. Hey, I understand he doesn't usually speak to people who are cold calling. Look Suzie, what is your email address? I wanna send you over a one sentence email. You can kinda check me out and then if you've got any questions, forward it onto John. Let John call me back." And there's a lot of different nice things that you can say in 30-second interaction to let Suzie know I can trust her. And if you can get an email address and just send her a one-sentence email with a link to your website or a like to your product or service or anything else with a little bit of social proof, look, she's gonna forward on the information to John. John who's always my imaginary potential client. Yeah, it's understanding if you go... Anyone that goes in Google and how to get past the gatekeeper right now, most of those articles I think are 15 years old. Those tactics aren't gonna work.
51:47 JJ: And those tactics 15 years ago to kinda recap in what we just finished talking about, it was so very different based on the different ways that consumers buy now where sale cycles are a little different as well. We don't approach buying a television quite the same way that we used to or even looking for a recommendation for a moving company or a realtor. It is completely different these days than it used to be. So what's your forecast in the sales world for the near future? What do you see coming down the lines as far as change goes, and how do you think we could prepare our sales mentalities for these changes?
52:37 SW: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I like that. So I'm really big on... There used to be a very differentiating line, a line in the sand between marketing and sales. So someone would see the ad in the Yellow Pages and then they'd call and then come down to the store and you'd go through a sales process. There's this very old-fashioned differentiation between the marketing and the sales. That's different in 2017. So when I give the example a minute ago of the guy who sells cellphones. Look, he's a cool guy and he's implemented technology that has allowed him to communicate continually with his potential clients. And so no matter what kind of product or service or business you have, you have to understand that you need to find a way to continually be providing content and information for your potential clients. So if that's having a Facebook group, great. If that's running Facebook ads, great. I think every real estate agent in the world should have a Facebook Messenger bot.
53:48 SW: I think every single one of them should and that should be set up on their page and so when someone reaches out and people can pull up a real estate agent's Facebook page and see that they're very responsive, they reply immediately, well the reason they're replying immediately, is 'cause there's a Messenger bot, and it's gonna say, "Hey, I'm so glad you've reached out to me. Are you looking to buy or sell your home?" and let the bot do half the work for you. Everything's coming together now. There's not that differentiation between the marketing and the sale anymore. It's one big, extended process, and so my forecast is look to the future. Look at how you buy things. You Google it, you look on Amazon, you compare prices. So you need to make sure that whatever product or service you have, when people kinda go to compare you to others they can find the information, and so for every product and service that's gonna be different, but it's using the technology we have 'cause anyone in 2017, I believe anyone working very minimally... You can be lazy in 2017 in sales, and still make six figures a year in commission, 100%, I believe.
54:54 KF: I love it. I see on your website there's a book called "The Joy Of The Sale" that's being released soon. What can you tell us about that book, and when do you think it might be released?
55:08 SW: Ooh, that is a good question, I love that. So that is actually a question... Someone was possibly gonna publish it, and then I kinda pulled back. I like, like everyone in the world, I like controlling everything. [chuckle] So I think it will probably, what is it, August right now, it'll probably be December in preparation for the new year, but yeah "The Joy Of The Sale" is part story, part technique, which I tell everyone stories sell. If you can use stories and implement stories in your sales process, look, you're gonna be golden, and that book is gonna be proof of concept with that 'cause my story, which I only told you guys the fun part about Milwaukee's Best at a poker game. Every salesperson has a story, and I think every individual has a story. So yeah, that should come out by the end of the year, and, yeah, it's gonna be showing people how use those stories in a sales process to actually, help people know, like, and trust you more.
56:15 JJ: Very exciting. So besides the book, what else are you working on right now? What else has you really excited at the moment?
56:24 SW: Yeah, so I [chuckle] have a lot of things in the pipeline, actually. [chuckle] So it's kinda like you asked that and I just wanna word vomit everywhere.
56:33 JJ: Awesome. [chuckle]
56:35 SW: Yeah. [chuckle] You asked about that book and I'm like, "What book is it?" because we've actually got two other books lined up hopefully over the next 18 months to come out back to back to back.
56:47 JJ: Oh, cool.
56:48 SW: But in addition to that, I've always kinda spoke, like small conferences, and I do a lot of in-office trainings and stuff like that, but that's what I love, and different people look at it differently, you can serve a lot of people on a small level, or you can serve a small group of people on a big level, and I like my business to be half and half. So I'm doing a lot more speaking and so, I love that, 'cause it's being able to serve a lot more people just a little bit to hopefully kinda bring them in to change their lives for the better.
57:24 KF: Awesome. Hey, Stan, ton of great value today. What's the best way for our listeners to get in touch with you?
57:31 SW: Yeah, so, really the best way is gonna be if you're in sales, you want to be in sales, you wanna network with a cool group of sales professionals, I say, "Hey, head to Facebook." Peak Sales Results Facebook group, or just check me out at peaksalesresults.com. That's really just my home base for everything, but yeah, that's definitely the best way.
57:52 KF: Perfect. Hey, before we say goodbye, what is one piece of parting advice that you would give to our listening audience?
58:00 SW: Just do it. [chuckle] I think a lot of people listen to podcasts, and I can say this personally as someone who is podcast junkie. In a corporate sales training position that I hated, I listen to podcasts all day every day, and I'd get really inspired, but I wouldn't take action, and sadly, it took me more years in my life than it should've ever taken to actually just go take the action. So, yeah, anyone who listens to this, just go do it. The worst thing that can happen is you're gonna fail, and if you're gonna fail, fail fast, and then do it again. That's it, just go do it.
58:36 JJ: Here Neon Noise Nation, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Stan. Be sure to go over and check out his website at peaksalesresults.com or online on Facebook at Peak Sales Results. Stan, thanks again for being on the show today, we really enjoyed our time with you today. The show notes for today wil be available at neongoldfish.com/podcast, until next time this is Justin, Ken, and Stan signing off. Neon Noise Nation, we will see you again next week.
[music]
59:07 S?: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Neon Noise podcast. Did you enjoy the podcast? If so, please subscribe, share with a friend or write a review. We wanna cover the topics you wanna hear. If you have an idea for a topic you'd like Justin and Ken to cover, connect with us on Twitter @neongoldfish, or through our website at neongoldfish.com.